19th August 2021
Time for some summer fringe fun from Edinburgh (from my Twitter feed) – but also with a serious point at the end.
Good morning
Welcome to a thread about Magna Carta and Edinburgh Castle
This is about the three errors made by *those* protesters – and why these errors matter
1.
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
And here is what appears the protesters say in their own words, with a link to a Facebook video – 'Magna Carta' is mentioned at 0:56
(Nicely without the redundant 'the' in front)
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
[Sadly the link in the above tweet has now been deleted.]
But!
Even if Magna Carta were part of the law of Scotland…
…Article 61 was removed from Magna Carta in…
…1216 when the charter was reissued
That is right, it was only part of Magna Carta for a year
(And it is chapter 61, not article 61, if that matters)
5.
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
Chapter 61 was an enforcement provision – to enforce the other terms of Magna Carta
The rights and powers of enforcing the charter were given to twenty-five barons (elected by other barons)
7.
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
So: Magna Carta not part of Scots law, and chapter 61 not part of Magna Carta since 1216, and chapter 61 did/does not confer any substantive rights anyway
Error upon error upon error
Layers of error mounting so high that you could – well – build a castle on top
9.
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
The prevalence of 'article 61 of Magna Carta' arguments is an index
It is an index of the lack of understanding of constitutional issues in England – and, it seems, also in Scotland
And that is not so funny
11.
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
There is a disturbing lack of knowledge and care for constitutionalism in the United Kingdom
And 'article 61 of Magna Carta' fills part of that gap
13.
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
One argument for a codified constitution is that a portable accessible text would improve constitutional knowledge
Perhaps – but in the US where there is such a constitutional code, there is also such magical thinking
Think about 6 January, etc
Exactly
15.
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
And that constitutional illiteracy and ignorance is a problem so difficult to tackle that it is like – well – climbing a steep hill with a castle on top
17 & ends.
— davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) August 18, 2021
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This all sound a bit Gatt24 to me.
you know the WTO Rule that would have “allowed” HMG to ignore the EU for 10 Years without changing anything ( which is of course BS)
but somebody had put it out in the Internet and so People believed it .
And on a side note I really enjoyed your last post about the Magna Carta. I think it was a shop owner who tried to use it.
Well, I doubt many of the protesters will have read clause 61 of the 1215 charter. There are plenty of versions online, but they will struggle to find it at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ although that website does have the 1297 version, a few small parts of which remain on the statute book for old time’s sake. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9/contents
If the protesters really were purporting to follow the terms of clause 61 (as it originally stood over 800 years ago, and even if it were still in effect, notwithstanding the pope’s almost immediate declaration that the 1215 charter was null, and void of all validity for ever, and different versions being reissued in 1216, 1217, and multiple times thereafter, and even if it ever had effect in Scotland) they would need to (i) make an alleged “offence” known to four of the 25 elected barons, (ii) ask the barons to make the offence known to the monarch (or justiciar) to demand redress, and (iii) wait 40 days before seizing any castles, lands, etc.
So my questions would be: what is the alleged offence you wish to complain about? Who are the 25 barons currently elected under the 1215 charter, and which four of them have you informed? Have they told the monarch or the justiciar? And have you waited the required 40 days? If not, please try again.
This pseudolegal nonsense is up there with “freeman on the land” idiocy, which tends to go badly wrong when it meets the real law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land